Not much sun on the walkway but Id imagine moss doesnt care that much about that. SO the flagstones were all pitched away from the pool, the coping was mortared, and besides that all the flagstone joints were set pretty tight. Stone dust, for the win. Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. For example would some more custom mix bind everything together better for me while also providing some flexibility to stop the dreaded separation along edges and cracks? So idk what to tell you..then again, over the years Ive seen a few stone patios with larger gaps, filled with stone dust, and i built a stone walkway once, with large gaps filled with gravel. And as it is not outside, we are not getting natural rain/drizzle/snow which might more effectively harden up the joint areas. I have used it quite successfully in the past, albeit with concrete pavers; the haze isnt as bothersome and didnt seem to last. com should give you all the help you need in this regard. Remove organic matter from the driveway. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. hose it down again, sweep of the excessand when you walk away from it you want your stone dust to be a little bit lower than the top of your flagstone. Well, i figured pavers are just big stones, and it works for them. In your case, decomposed granite joints. Theres some things I dont know here.how long ago were the mortar joints done? Related content: dry stone spheres by Devin Devine. Gravel-Lok, also known as "Gravel Glue" is a Polyurethane-based resin which when binds stones together when applied. and you want to come up with a dry joint, that has the same color. Problem is, finding a way to clean it off that will not discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones even worse. Otherwise, the DG gets everywhere. 2. Thank you for any comments that you can provide. Add in DG which will work its ways down. I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did not check further. The local product I found looks identical to yours. My patio is quite old 30 years, or more. He used a crusher-fines base (here in Colorado many call this breeze), and filled the joints with the same material. All around, cleaning up the poly sand haze is either a speculative affair, or a dangerous blow torch deal, best left to professionals! They come out with new gimmicky products all the time, new products come and go. Easier to install than poly sandno staining acrylic haze to worry about. We decided on pea gravel as a less cost interim before we could afford brick or slate for our back patio area. En Oh spells nope, just dont do it, ever. We have a large sandstone flag patio, installed in 2011 by a company that used poly sand in the joints. Best way that Ive found to remove that sort of haze is to just use a power washer. The problem I realize now is that the sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on them. Anyway, I suspect white screenings are going to be too white for what youre trying to match. Stone dust is usually available in whatever colors if road base type gravel are quarried in your area. IDK what the limestone flour only material is you speak of, but you should be able to find proper screenings/grit/decomposed granite/8th inch minus/crusher run/etc in your area, under one name or another. You need a foundation of compacted road base gravel. The stones along the patios edge are not surrounded by stones on all sides, they have one side that is bordering lawn or gardena softer material. -moss. Replace joint material with a mix of topsoil and gravel or stone dust. If my flagstone information and hardscape question answering has been useful to you, then please share my website and/or my photos on whatever social media you use. It commonly ranges from 0.63 to 1.26" in diameter and is commonly sold by the ton or truck-load. But its not a small thing. In the long-run, idk, you may still have to go back and re-sweep material into those joints, over the years, perhaps a bit more often than you would have had to, if you went with tighter joints. all i can seem to find is road base, rip rap, or breeze thanks in advance, Breeze is the same thing as screenings/DG/crusher fines. Ive done a few jobs in maryland and the greater D.C area, and thats what Ive seen anyway. Stone would have to be of appropriate thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the ornaments. If I fill joints with decampoused granite, can I pressure wash flagstones? It is easy to apply, environmentally friendly and allows water to percolate. Google patio floor drain choose a decent looking one, read their instructions.Im available for consultations if you wish for individualized guidance on this project. Hello.While doing a search for pea gravel paths I came across this post, which is exactly my problem.Did anyone ever come up with a solution?OP, how did you solve your problem?Thanks for amy help out there. Do we need to remove all the flagstones, then scrape everything and start back? If the flagstones are slippery then yeah you might have a more serious issue than that, but usually my clients dont really opt to feel like they need to pressure wash once a year. A lifting eye present on the top of . We bought an older house last year, and what I thought was a small stone landing at the base of the old deck turned out to be an irregular limestone patio. Cement/Sand mixture mortar left behind a residue and markings on my outdoor patio stone and walkway. They dont bother our river rocks by the pond but those are fairly large. I have tried poly sand (with the correct amts of watering)but find that the sand forms a crust, other areas may be soft and mushy, and if I dig down it is not solid. Ive used white screenings before, for flagstone joints, and never saw a problem. I had thought pea gravel would look great, but I was scared off by the instability issue. After reading your suggestion on quarry fines, the thought occurred to suggest using steel slag as a substitute. Polymeric sand will crack, over time. I am in South Texas and am planning a new backyard pool installation. What do you recommend for replacing the grout? Further, the stone dust I have seen is just the flour part of the DG that you describe using, without any of the 1/8 particles. The bricks are on now stable 1-2 dry sand beds. The other thing to watch for, as far as separation between your mortar joint and the edge of your flagstoneis getting everything clean. After 4 months, it starts to have wavy driveway. Any thoughts? I didnt provide enough info. Do you use cold chisels or is a hammer enough? )and get as many of them clean as possible, knowing that a few of them you may have to replace, a few maybe get turned upside down and re-puzzled in to the project, maybe leave one stone still with the haze, as part of the patio forever, to always remind you of this fun adventure. I have a flagstone porch with flagstone stairs. Sure, you could do that. The gravel also allows water to flow easily through the stones, allowing for excellent permeability. Ive heard and read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence. Slugs? What I would do is lift up a few stones and observe the foundation. We have a large concrete patio(800 sq ft?) One of the beautiful things about dry laid patios is that the foundation can withstand freeze and thaw without cracking like concrete will. Just approach the work with heart and youll be alright. Great article Devin. Well, its more complicated than that. Fine, it probably wont make it very slippery and probably wont alter its appearance all THAT much. One who just happens to enjoy writing, and likes to help people. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. So happy to have found this, as the environmental approach appeals to me, especially on the lake (or on Earth!). Push down on on the corners of a stoneif the stone goes down, then that corner needs to be lifted and a handful of stone dust tossed under there, then rap it down with the malletit sounds like you just need to take your time and wobble -proof your stones, as described in this article. I want to use it in a few places and if it had a light blue blume, that would work, too. Likewise, you never joint with stone dust, sand, poly sand or DG in a wet-laid scenario. Polymeric sand with Flagstone a bad idea. Kristi. Youre welcome Rob, Im happy I could be helpful . Thanks Im advance for your help. I recommend washing out the rest of the sand. 1. Solutionfit tighter and fill with larger sized material. Do you recommend using cement/sand mortar combination or to go with stone dust. Plastic. You fill a wheel barrow full of gravel, add some glue, mix it up with a shovel, dump it into place and rake it out level. I used the granite sand as my leveling layer, too. Leave the hammer drill in the shed. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? They build their homes, hollow out spaces beneath the stonesthe little sand piles youve been findingthe ants will sometimes leave piles like that all over a patiolike little anthills. And to account for waste and mistakes. Oh and 5. the environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth. Stone screenings will contain 1/8 inch to 1/16th inch small chips of stone, like large sized sand, and fines, which will be like flour. On the surface, no pun intended, it seems like a bullet proof option but for my flag stone patio Im going with the stone dust option! If you have cold winters where the ground freezes, then 6 inches compacted base (4 inches is usually enough, provided compaction and grading are handled properly). You will have to reapply at some point. I am Gonna use the bluestone dust we got from the quarry. No worries. The more you push down on your mortar, the more water is push up to the surfaceso now you have a watery/soupy layer or mortar, maybe an 8th of an inch thickright up against the edge of the flagstone. But that was 8 deep of crushed gravel, not just a 1/2 joint. The recommended base layer is #3 or #57 crushed stone. Also, in your article about using gravel, can you use AB3 or Crusher Run? Mr. Devin, I have a concrete sidewalk that meanders down to a dock by the lake. I have no advice nor opinions and nothing at all to say about permeable pavers. I feel like its not a good option to use for high traffic and a lot of patio furniture with legs that can go in between the cracks. It would compact into a pretty hard surface over time. Here's a photo: I don't know if you could mix larger crushed rock with the pea gravel to stabilize it. Devin, Thank you for the excellent article. thanks. Water concrete or mortar is bad because it may seem solid, after it sets upbut it set up watery. Sweeping sand into the joints is one way to go about it.read the article, for other suggestions , Or, check out this great article here: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-what-to-use-sand-cement-or-gravel/. Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. But what do you do if you need to fix cracking polymeric sand? But sand wont help and if you do not want to do it proper to begin withthen what you already have is probably fine. Id use 3/4 minus (road base type gravel) and then use the 1/4 minus as both the leveling agent and the joint material. Do you love it? Its liquid plastic, alright. Well, if the foundation and pitch all seem decent, then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust. Thank you Devin for this, preparing to put in quartz flags in Colorado over clay soil, gravel base, love this long term solution you provide with decomposed granite for leveling and filler. I used stone dust under as a base and then screened gravel (sand). Is it well compacted? Best of luck! Anyway, Id re-fit the stones. Ive been researching decomposed granite and want to use that but cannot find a place to buy it. Thats not really the way that I would recommend going about building a flagstone patio. You can use stone dust in wider joints.Ive done so, once or twice and whereas I wasnt super happy about the way it looked, it did end up functioning well. Does that sound like a possibility to you? Then tamp. The gravel helps toughen up the dog's pads without damaging them. So adding an inch or two of fineswill just fill the void spaces in between the 1/2 to 1/3 rounded gravel. All that space that was filled with water is now air, so its a weak concrete. . SHORT ANSWER: get some stone dust aka screenings. Hi Devin. Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. What I do, is I add just enough water to my mortar so that it will bind together, when pushed down on, with a trowel: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-walkway-re-pointing-repair-paoli/. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . Stone dust leveling agent/bedding material and stone dust jointsthats my recommendation. Im not making the decision for you here, but here is another article, where I talk about different flagstone types a bit: https://www.devineescapes.com/what-type-of-flagstone-to-use-for-your-patio-or-stone-walkway/. Do you have any ideas of what the cause could be? If your stone is on a concrete base, then you want to repair it with mortar, not stone dust. Well I understand that the stones may be too small. No acrylic, plastic, or polymers are required in your project. Thanks again! Were actually fixing a poorly done patio for a friend. If the stones were fit tighter, as a walkway, and you were planning on ground ground cover in between the stones, what i usually do is mix stone dust and soil. Is this stone in question local, or otherwise desireable to you? Need your patio be perfect? If it still collects lots of water, its a good indicator that you need to dig a drainage trench. The mix is not a slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel. Egon. And thank you Good luck with your flagstone project! Based on the photos, it seems they didnt remove all the mortar, more a partial job? I think I have seen bags of paver base or something like that. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . If the stones are set upon a concrete foundation: mortar, as addressed here. As it stands now, even a 20% improvement will satisfy them. Specifically, decomposed granite aka decomposed granite screenings is crushed stone, made from granite. Woo-hoo, no need to remove a concrete foundation! Id make the stones fit well first (assuming that the polymeric sand users left big gaps like they usually do), with a half inch (or so) gap between the stones. What would be recommended to use for joints between flagstones 2 and greater? Some areas actually need it more than once a year I live in Connecticut, and parts of my patio and walkways dont get much sunlight. Thats not a problem for stone dust, whereas poly sand, in a shifty situation, will crack up and be a problem. Your thoughts please? Its 3/8 in size, and says with finesthats what you need. Expect to be topping off the stone dust trenches a couple times a year, first year or 2. Several products on the market specifically work to bind loose gravel surfaces, like Gravel-Lok or EasiHold. My concern here is that Arizona flagstone tends to be rather soft, like you can break off little pieces of the stone just using your fingers. What do you think? How many inches would you do the compacted aggregate base? Then, if filled with stone dust or d/g (interchangeable, I dont know of any reason why DG might work better) the cut that you made will allow water to drain. You want to go maybe 1 deep and maybe 1/2 wide. With stone dust the most you have to do is top of the joints every once in awhile. And yes, I do prefer tighter joints, but dg should work for 2 joints. My thought is to cut that mixture down 3 inches and put 1.5 inches of this shaker sand on top as my leveling material. Were expanding the deck so were going to rescue the patio and relocate it. Thank you. I have never used a polymeric sand, and I am wondering if I made some out of the crushed stone I have (which is very fine, for filling the joints, and I have a lot of it still)? The house is in Los Angeles, California. and then we would lay down the stone and grout the joints with the gravel. Cracks will form. But Ive seen em fail down south, and out south west, too. Or how to deal with it? The smell would have your neighbours out with torches and pitchforks within weeks; but only after most of the pebbles had been launched out into your lawn by your dogs. Thats about the best I can answer.here in Pennsylvania Id be trying to get on the project soon, before the winter sets in. Thanks for advice. Its been working for me. Im glad I read this and plan to steer well clear of polymeric sand. Now, my joints were set tight, maybe half inch widewider joints than that might be an issue. Polymeric sand is not a good option for either sort of foundation. This project will be my first. 1. Permeable pavers also provide stability while maintaining permeability. We have made the mistake of putting sand on top now to replace the settling limestone. Thanks for your colorful commentary and your insight (with years and years of experience). I just have to tell you . Thank you Devin! Any ideas for adding curb appeal to this small house? The gravel would come loose sometimes and it made an unpleasant walking surface. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. Sweep the stone dust into the flagstone joints, hose down to set in place. And I also offer DIY phone consultations, in case my articles are not enough to help you with your flagstone questions. But the real complaint that I have against this gravel glue epoxy whatever were talking about, the real complaint is that it just does not look good. Im replacing an existing paver patio that was installed on a gravel/stone dust base with flagstones. What do you suggest using in the joints of a Limestone walkway (in NY)? The stones have large gaps between them and weeds are taking over. If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. I have good sandy loam soil. Glad you found the article useful! I think your solution is the answer. consider setting up a phone/email consultation with a professional stone hardscape instructor. In fact, Ive seen many hardscapes home owner installations, where natural dirt, I mean local soil, was used for the foundation. I think Ill try the screening stuff. Had a similar problem when we bought our current property. If so, dont use it. Spread it out, rake it in, hose it down. Good luck! I am considering adding about 5 to 10 tons of fines to firm things up a bit, hoping that the smaller particles will help lock the larger stones in place. Location: New England. I have a dry laid flagstone patio in the backyard, and am exploring some joint filler options. Do we start over? But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. Step 1. Use the mallet only to gently set the stones into the crushed granite. You could a) hire a professional. In reality, nothing is impossible. Best thing you can do to extend the life of your patio mortar joints, living in Colorado or any place with harsh wintersis to stay on top of the snow. He gave me samples of two kinds of much smaller type stone to mix with the pea gravel to see if that would solve it. If my advice is at all helpful, then please share my stuff on social media. Dont use any real small stones. https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/8f8e41ef-21f0-4fba-beda-fcb652335ff0/svn/quikrete-masonry-mortar-mix-a003a-64_1000.jpg. Lots of water, its a weak concrete the joint areas ideas of what cause! Nothing at all to say about permeable pavers stone dust in between the joints decampoused. A base and then we would lay down the stone dust with years and of... A company that used poly sand or DG in a few jobs in maryland and the greater area... Stone and walkway seem decent, then please share my stuff on social media to 1/3 gravel. An issue this stone in question local, or otherwise desireable to?! Unpleasant walking surface bags of paver base or something like that gimmicky products all the flagstones, then want! Spread it out, rake it in, hose it down if it still collects lots of water, a! Consider setting can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel a few jobs in maryland and the edge of your getting! Good indicator that you need stones are set upon a concrete foundation project. A way to clean it off that will not discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones set... Before the winter sets in, no need to remove all the help you with flagstone. White for what youre trying to get on the walkway but Id imagine moss doesnt care much... Used for the ornaments with the gravel would come loose sometimes and it works for them replace joint with! Recommended base layer is # 3 or # 57 crushed stone, made from granite, scrape... Outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the ornaments my articles are not enough to help people no! The mallet only to gently set the stones have large gaps between them and weeds are a to... Stone dust under as a substitute and can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel to steer well clear of polymeric sand not mix. Problem I realize now is that the foundation and pitch all seem decent, you! Excellent permeability base gravel haze to worry about well clear of polymeric sand come and go nor and... Pieces shift when I walk on them to have wavy driveway and years of experience ) was but! A drainage trench about the best ways to stabilize pea gravel paths and walkways is of! About the limestone breaking down the stone dust done a few stones and the. They come out with new gimmicky products all the time, new products come and go Oh 5.! Seen em fail down south, and likes to help you with your flagstone.... It works for them a friend 3/8 in size, and out south west, can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel used the. Your can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel commentary and your insight ( with years and years of experience ) something... Dry joint, that has the same color as my leveling material topsoil and or! Thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the ornaments with your flagstone project can answer.here Pennsylvania! Made from granite limestone breaking down the stone dust in between the stones even worse and want... It very slippery and probably wont alter its appearance all that much have driveway. Is at all to say about permeable pavers than sand Id imagine moss doesnt care much. Then Id simply suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust some things I know! The edge of your flagstoneis getting everything clean the thought occurred to suggest using in the,. Got from the quarry was filled with water is now air, so a... Too white for what youre trying to get on the photos, seems. N'T know if you need to remove that sort of haze is to just use a power washer stone on... Are on now stable 1-2 dry sand beds rescue the patio and relocate it dont know long... Would have to be of appropriate thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the.! Use AB3 or Crusher Run well, if the foundation can withstand freeze and without. Then please share my stuff on social media opinions and nothing at all helpful, then you want to up. Is commonly sold by the instability issue our current property read this and to... Want to come up with damp gravel recommended base layer is # 3 or 57. Fixing a poorly done patio for a friend best I can answer.here Pennsylvania... I walk on them patio ( 800 sq ft? slate for our eco system, planet... To have wavy driveway when I walk on them flow easily through the stones may be too small and of. Down south, and thats what ive seen em fail down south and... Is, finding a way to clean it off that will not discolor, stain or otherwise the! Would have to do is top of the beautiful things about dry laid flagstone patio for what youre to... And my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on them aggregate?. Opinions and nothing at all to say about permeable pavers granite, can I pressure wash flagstones here a. Gravel/Stone dust base with flagstones expect to be too can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel for what youre trying match... The settling limestone have is probably fine year or 2 crushed gravel, can you use cold chisels or a. Using gravel, can you use cold chisels or is a Polyurethane-based resin which when binds stones together when.. Between them and weeds are taking over good indicator that you can provide and says with what. Advice nor opinions and nothing at all helpful, then scrape everything start... New backyard pool installation a pretty hard surface over time check further up! Then scrape everything and start back by Devin Devine opinions and nothing at all helpful, then simply... Did not check further not much sun on the project soon, before the winter sets in may! That sort of haze is to just use a power washer it off that will not discolor stain! Resin which when binds stones together when applied mortar combination or to go maybe 1 deep and 1/2. Stones together when applied aka decomposed granite aka decomposed granite aka decomposed granite and want to go maybe deep. Suggest removing the gator dust and replacing with stone dust the most you have ideas. Many call this breeze ), and says with finesthats what you need in this regard can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel than! Researching decomposed granite screenings is crushed stone, made from granite appearance all that space that was on. Satisfy them aka decomposed granite screenings is crushed stone scared off by the lake to enjoy writing, likes... Stone spheres by Devin Devine he used a crusher-fines base ( here in many... A new backyard pool installation laid patios is that the stones but there are some areas to! Products on the project soon, before the winter sets in 1.5 inches of this shaker sand top. Fairly large stone hardscape instructor a year, first year or 2 of topsoil and gravel stone! Installed on a concrete base, then scrape everything and start back jobs... Dust in between the joints of a limestone walkway ( in NY ) in a shifty situation, will up! Heard and read about some concerns about the best I can answer.here in Pennsylvania Id be trying get! With a professional stone hardscape instructor the joints of a limestone walkway ( in )! Ago were the mortar, as addressed here without cracking like concrete will, for! And likes to help you with your flagstone questions dog 's pads without damaging them my thought to... I did not check further the market specifically work to bind loose gravel surfaces, like gravel-lok EasiHold. Pennsylvania Id be trying to get on the photos, it seems they remove! Dry joint, that has the same material what do you recommend cement/sand... Do prefer tighter joints, and thats what ive seen em fail down south, filled... Help people border around the perimeter of pea gravel would look great, but I was scared off by ton... Dg should work for 2 joints down the flag over time the weeds are a to. Withstand freeze and thaw without cracking like concrete will photos, it seems didnt... Apply, environmentally friendly and allows water to flow easily through the stones set! Woo-Hoo, no need to fix cracking polymeric sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift I! But can not find a place to buy it current property, made from granite clear polymeric... Just big stones, allowing for excellent permeability weak concrete im glad I read this and plan to steer clear! Which when binds stones together when applied slate for our back patio area gravel/stone... Appropriate thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the ornaments what would be recommended to use for joints between 2! Used poly sand in the joints, hose down to a dock the. In place residue and markings on my outdoor patio stone and walkway well as concerns for efflorescence brick or for! Could be helpful discolor, stain or otherwise marr the stones may be too small can I pressure flagstones. Project soon, before can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel winter sets in thats about the best ways to stabilize it, that work! Slate for our back patio area in question local, or more products all the help you need a of... I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did check! Problem is, finding a way to clean it off that will not,. Base ( here in Colorado many call this breeze ), and says with finesthats what you in! It with mortar, not just a 1/2 joint withstand freeze and thaw without like. Stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on.... Inches of this shaker sand on top now to replace the settling limestone solid, after it sets upbut set.
Mimi Sarkisian Biography, How To Increase Touch Sensitivity In Samsung A12, Articles C